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The Betty H. Carter Women Veterans Historical Project

Oral history interview with Dorothy Farrington Gribble, 1999

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Object ID: WV0035.5.001

Description: Primarily documents Dorothy "Dottie" Farrington Gribble’s military service in the Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps (WAAC) and the Women’s Army Corps (WAC) from 1943 to 1945, particularly her time at Bergstrom Field in Texas, and her personal life and career after the war.

Summary:

Gribble primarily discusses WAAC basic training at Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia, in early 1943, and her subsequent assignment as an administrative assistant in personnel at the 89th Headquarters of the air force at Bergstrom Field, Texas. She describes the environment for women in the headquarters, the reaction of the public to women in the military, and the social activities available while dating her future husband, Bill.

Gribble includes many anecdotes concerning friends in the military, visiting her older brother at his base, and a complicated effort to catch military planes home to North Carolina and back to Texas. Other topics include the death of her younger brother in Africa while in the air force and Gribble’s career in sales and travels following the war.

Creator: Dorothy Farrington Gribble

Biographical Info: Dorothy "Dottie" Farrington Gribble of High Point, North Carolina, served in the Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps (WAAC) and the Women’s Army Corps (WAC) from 1943 to 1945, and then had a long career in sales.

Collection: Dorothy Farrington Gribble Papers

Rights: It is responsibility of the user to follow the copyright law of the United States (Title 17, U.S. Code). Materials are not to be reproduced in published works without written consent, and any use should credit Jackson Library, The University of North Carolina at Greensboro.

Full Text:

HT:

My name is Hermann Trojanowski and today is February 9, 1999. I'm at the home of Mrs. Dorothy Gribble in High Point, North Carolina, to conduct an interview for the Women Veterans Historical Collection at UNCG [The University of North Carolina at Greensboro].

Mrs. Gribble, Dottie, if you would say a word or two to make sure this is running all right, we'll do a little test. Why don't you tell me your maiden name and where you were born and where you lived in the early years of your life?

DG:

Well, my name is Dorothy Farrington Gribble, and I'm usually called Dottie, and I was born at Route 1, High Point, N.C.

HT:

Dottie, I want to thank you, first of all, for agreeing to do this interview today. We really appreciate you telling us your story about your military service during World War II. If we could backtrack just a little bit about what you did before you went in the service, where did you go to high school? And if you worked before you went in the service, could you tell me a little bit about that and maybe a little about your family life?

DG:

Well, I was born and reared during the Depression, and you know, as everyone else did that lived in that period, we had it rough. I went to Colfax High School, I graduated there in 1936, and then I went to work in Greensboro at Mojud [Beringer] Hosiery Mill. That was really the only place that you could get a good job. Then, while I was working there, I joined the service.

HT:

Do you recall why you joined the service, and if you could tell me which branch of the service you joined?

DG:

Well, I joined the WACs, the Women's Army Corps. It was really the Women's Auxiliary Army Corps.

HT:

It was W-A-A-C at that time, I guess.

DG:

Yes, at that time.

HT:

And when was that?

DG:

In '43. And I was in two years, but the first year I was in they changed it to the W-A-C. And I worked in the office of the 89th Headquarters Division at Bergstrom Field, Austin, Texas.

HT:

Do you recall why you joined?

DG:

Well, I joined because I thought maybe in some small way that I could help out. And they sent me to Army Administration School in Austin, Texas.

HT:

Did you go through basic training?

DG:

Oh, yes.

HT:

And where was that?

DG:

Fort Oglethorpe, Georgia.

HT:

Do you recall your first day of basic training and what that was like?

DG:

Well, of course it was all new to us. They didn't have our barracks finished, they didn't have our laundry rooms, they didn't have our latrines. It seemed like we had to walk a fourth of a mile to take a shower, and we had to wear our galoshes and our raincoats because it rained and sleeted and snowed the whole seven weeks I was down there.

HT:

Which months were you down there, do you recall?

DG:

February and March. The week before we left down there—We would do our laundry, take our laundry up the street to the latrines and do our laundry there and bring them back and hang them up in our barracks that night. Then, of course, we had to take them down by inspection in the morning. But the week before we left, right across the sidewalk from the back door of our barracks they had a big laundry room finished, they had the latrines finished and everything for the next group of WAACs that came in there. And so then I was sent to Russellville, Arkansas, for seven weeks training there of army administration there, too.

HT:

Was that a little bit easier than basic training?

DG:

Yes. We didn't have a lot of the marching and everything like that.

HT:

It was more class work, I guess?

DG:

More class work.

HT:

So you became an administrative-type person?

DG:

Right. I worked in the office. I stayed there seven weeks and then I was moved to Bergstrom Field, Austin, Texas.

HT:

And did you stay at Bergstrom the entire rest of your service time?

DG:

Yes.

HT:

And if we could backtrack just a minute to your basic training, do you recall what a typical day was like at basic training, what time you had to get up and what you had to do? I've heard other ladies say they had to do a lot of marching.

DG:

Right. We had to get up at six o'clock of a morning and be ready to fall out for breakfast by 6:30. We went to breakfast, and then after that we went to class. We were there until lunch, and then we came back to the dining hall for lunch, and then we had to go back to school, and we were in school until five o'clock. And, of course, school—we did a lot of marching and also administrative work there.

HT:

Did you ever learn to shoot a gun?

DG:

No. We just went in at that particular time to take the place of a man that was in the administration.

HT:

I know many of the recruiting posters from that time said that, and one of the reasons that many women did join was to free a man for combat.

DG:

Right.

HT:

Did you view your enlistment that way?

DG:

Yes.

HT:

And did you feel badly that you might be sending a man who might be killed?

DG:

No, I never thought about that.

HT:

Was this the first time you'd ever been away from Greensboro, North Carolina, from home?

DG:

For any length of time. I had done a lot of traveling with my older brother and his wife, like going to Washington, D.C., and several places like that.

HT:

Was this the first time you'd ever been away from home alone?

DG:

Oh yes.

HT:

Can you describe your feelings, what that was like?

DG:

Well, I got homesick, but we really didn't have time to get homesick. And my family all wrote me and supported me, and that helped a lot.

HT:

I'm sure it did. So your family, as you said, was very supportive of you joining.

DG:

Right.

HT:

How about your friends and either girls of the same age and co-workers and that sort of thing, how did they feel about you joining?

DG:

Well, they thought it was a wonderful thing, but so many of them didn't want to do it. [chuckling] At the place where I worked, they published a monthly magazine, and every time they wrote to me or called me, or I wrote to them to let them know how I was doing, they would put it in the magazine. And so I had several columns in the magazine.

HT:

Telling about where you were and what you were doing, that kind of stuff?

DG:

Yes, what I was doing and everything.

HT:

When you joined, did your parents have to sign for you, or were you old enough that you could do it on your own?

DG:

I was old enough to do it on my own. See, my mother was deceased in 1933, so my dad was there. And he thought it was all right if I wanted to do it.

HT:

And I think you told me earlier before we started the tape that you had a brother who was in the military. Is that correct?

DG:

I had two of them.

HT:

Two brothers?

DG:

Right.

HT:

And which branch of the service were they in?

DG:

My younger brother, he joined and was in the air force. Then they transferred him. He made buck sergeant in three months, and that was very difficult to do. Then they sent him to pilot's training in Caldwell, Idaho, and from there they put him back in the infantry because they had enough pilots at that time. And when they put him in the infantry—[whispering] I shouldn't tell this. He was sent to Washington state to get his training, and that's when he made staff sergeant, and he was sent overseas then. And he said that the training he got, that he would be killed the first day he went in battle. He went in battle November 13th and he was wounded that day, and he lived until the 8th of December when he died. It was because of the general that was teaching them to fight in battle. He was the one that lost all the battles in Africa.

Then my older brother went in service and he went in the air force. He was assigned to B-24s, bombers, in the South Pacific, and he went to school and he was crew chief on this B-24 bomber. As soon as the islands were cleared of the Japs, they moved in and made that their base. And they'd just hop from one island to the other. Like Iwo Jima and all those islands he was on, and he stayed until the army was over, and I don't remember how many years that was.

HT:

How long did you stay in the military?

DG:

A little over two years.

HT:

A little over two years? Oh, so you got out sometime in 1945. Was that before or after the war was over?

DG:

That was before.

HT:

Before? And what was the reason that you left early? Did you get married at that time?

DG:

I got married.

HT:

You got married. So you had the option to leave, I guess.

DG:

Yes.

HT:

You said you worked at Bergstrom. That was an air base, army air base.

DG:

Right.

HT:

The [U.S] Air Force was not in existence at that time, I understand.

DG:

Right, it wasn't.

HT:

What was done at Bergstrom? What kind of air base was it?

DG:

They had just this one squadron of fliers, and it was C-46s and 47s, planes, and they sent the students to teach them to fly at Bergstrom Air [Field], and then the rest of the base was all ground troops. But that's where I worked, in the headquarters, the 89th Headquarters, Air Force.

HT:

And what type of work did you do?

DG:

Office work.

HT:

Office work? In payroll or personnel or—

DG:

No, in personnel.

HT:

In personnel. And can you describe what you did on a daily basis?

DG:

Well, I worked with the first sergeant that took care of all the—I don't know exactly how to describe this, the main or the highest-flying officers that was in that squadron. And I was just a clerk for them. I worked with them.

HT:

And did anything outstanding stand out from that period of time, anything interesting?

DG:

No. When my husband was transferred to that base—of course I didn't know him when he was transferred to the base—he worked in the department where they made up all of the flights for the flying officers. And anytime any of us wanted to come home on furlough or got ready to come home on furlough, we called him and he made up a flight to the closest air base to our home, and we got to fly home. And if we could get one coming back, it didn't cost us a thing.

HT:

Is that how you met him, by arranging for a flight perhaps?

DG:

No, standing in line at a movie. [chuckling] I thought he was the best-looking man I'd ever seen in my life. And I was engaged, too. I'd better not tell all that.

HT:

Oh, please do. [chuckling]

DG:

No.

HT:

You were engaged at that time to someone else?

DG:

Yes, right. One had left our base and was transferred to Fort Bragg [North Carolina]. So we started dating, and then he sent a plane—After we became engaged, one of the boys that worked with him sent a plane to Amarillo, Texas. My husband was from Oklahoma and the nearest air base was Amarillo, Texas, 147 miles from his home. So he sent a plane to take us there, and we went and spent four days with his parents, and then caught a train in here and stayed here four days, and then we went back to Texas. But I went on a lot of flights with him.

I came home—Let's see, my dad was sick and had been in the hospital, and my CO [commanding officer] asked me one Sunday afternoon, she said, “Farrington, would you like to go home on a leave?”

And I said, “Yes, ma'am, I would.”

She said, “Well, you are due a fifteen-day sick leave.” She said, “Go over to the barracks and pack your bags and I'll write you out permission,” and said, “Call the flight line and see if they've got anything going out this afternoon east that you can go home.”

And so we called over there, and they had one plane left going to Shreveport, Louisiana. They said, “Be down here in thirty minutes and you can get on it.” I got on that plane, and it was my first flight, the first time I had ever been up. And I flew to Shreveport and I went in the office there to see if they could tell me where the train station was, where I could get a train from there to North Carolina. And this good-looking officer came up and wanted to know where I was going, and I told him.

And he said, “Well, I've got a plane out here going to Lawson Field, Georgia, at eleven o'clock tonight.” They'd come after me. “I've been,” he said, “on sick leave, and you can go on it to Monroe, Louisiana, if you want to.”

And I said, “Well, yes, sir, I'd like to.”

So he said, “Well, you'll have to get you a parachute.”

And I said, “Well, I don't know where to go.”

He said, “Well, come on, I'll take you.” He took me and got my parachute and bought my dinner, and brought me back and put me on the plane at eleven o'clock that night. We flew to Monroe, Louisiana, and when we got there a staff car met he and his flight officers. They took me up to the WAC barracks and told me to go in and find an empty bunk and crash, and get up in the morning and call the flight line to see if they had anything going north. So that's what I did.

A friend of mine had been sent to Monroe, Louisiana, which I had forgotten all about, to go to cook and baker school. The next morning, someone was shaking me violently and saying, “Farrington! Farrington! Get up! What are you doing here?” And it was that girl that was there, and she recognized that ruby ring I have on up there in that picture. So she got me up and fixed my breakfast, and we called the flight line and they said, “We have one plane left going to Pope Field/Fort Bragg. Can you use that?” And I said, “Yes, sir.” They told me where to come, and I was down there and caught that plane to Pope Field/Fort Bragg, and got there that evening.

But now that Sunday, back to the Sunday that my CO told me that I had a sick leave coming, I had just received a telegram from my younger brother, the one that was killed overseas, and he said, “Have fifteen-day leave. Catch a plane, come home. Love, Carter.” And that's why I wanted to come on home. And that is the last time I ever saw him was after I got home. He was to meet me. I called him and told him that I was coming to Fort Bragg and that I would catch a bus from there home. Well, he said he would meet me at the bus station. When I got to the bus station, there was no one there to meet me. And he was out at my older brother's house in Greensboro, and I caught a taxi and came on out there. And I said, “Why didn't you meet me?” He said, “Well, I went up there,” and he was just teasing me, he said, “and all the stalls were full, and I couldn't find you anyplace, so I came back home.” He said, “I knew you'd get a taxi and come out here.” So I stayed with my brother in Greensboro, and then the younger brother that was in service and me came on home and stayed with Dad. And my brother got to stay here four days, and that was the last time I ever saw him.

I stayed home fifteen days, and then Dad got sick and I got a three-day extension. And I got ready to go back. I went down here to the airport and asked the guard on duty if they had a plane going west, that I wanted to go back to Texas. He said no, there wasn't anything there, but maybe something might come in. If there was anything going to San Antonio or Austin, he would let me know. Well, we hadn't even gotten back to Greensboro from telling Dad goodbye when he had called and said there was a B-24 bomber going to San Antonio the next morning at six o'clock, and if I would be up there I could fly with them. I was up there at six o'clock the next morning, I got on that plane, sat on my parachute on the floor.

We got just this side of Greenville, South Carolina, and we smelled smoke on the plane. And the crew chief climbed all over that plane. If you've ever been inside of a B-24, well, there's a catwalk that you can walk across the middle of it, but you can go up—He could go up in under the motor of the plane and check everything like that, and he couldn't find anything. But we had to land in Greenville. And there was a gadget about that big and about that big around that the wires were burned out, and that's what we were smelling. And they had to take it out, and they did not have another one to replace it, so they said they thought that we could take off without it. Well, when we took off we couldn't get the wheels up. So we had to circle the field and land again. And by that time, I mean they had to help me off that plane I was so scared. They rewired that gadget themselves and put it back in, and we flew on to Dallas. We landed there to refuel. They said if we didn't have to stay very long in line and could refuel in a hurry, they would land at Bergstrom Field and let me off. But if they couldn't, they'd have to take me on to San Antonio. Well, we had to stay in line too long, so we flew over Bergstrom Field. They radioed that they had one of their WACs aboard but they didn't have time to stop and let her land, and they took me on to San Antonio and I caught the bus back from there. It cost me two dollars and a half to ride the bus from San Antonio back to Austin, it cost me two dollars and a half to ride from Fort Bragg to Greensboro. My round-trip home, eighteen days, and it cost me five dollars.

HT:

I have a question to ask you about your parachute. Did that belong to you? You said something about—

DG:

No.

HT:

But you carried it everywhere you went?

DG:

Yes.

HT:

You brought it home?

DG:

No.

HT:

But everybody who was aboard the plane had to have one, I guess.

DG:

Had to have a parachute.

HT:

But you didn't have it on, you just sat on it?

DG:

No, just sat on it, because I was on the floor. See, there's no place in a B-24 bomber to sit except the two pilots. Oh, and by the way, they let me sit up there and fly for a little while.

HT:

What was that like?

DG:

Wonderful. [chuckling] Of course, it was very well supervised, I guarantee you.

HT:

Did you want to become a pilot after that?

DG:

No. No, that was too big a thing for me to get off the ground.

HT:

That must have been very interesting. Getting back to the type of work that you did, do you think you were treated equally with men who had the same position as you in the army? Or did men do that type of work?

DG:

Oh yes, plenty of them did, sure. I was the only woman in the 89th Headquarters that worked in there.

HT:

So did you ever encounter any kind of discrimination because you were a woman?

DG:

No. They were the finest bunch of men I've ever worked with in my life I've ever seen.

HT:

So you were never singled out because you were a woman and received any kind of special treatment because you were a woman?

DG:

No, the head officers wanted me to go down to Old Mexico with them, and that was when silk hose were out of style—I mean we didn't have them here but we could get them in Old Mexico. One of the captains came out one day and he said, “Dottie, let's go to Old Mexico today.” He said, “I'd like for you to go help me pick out some hose for my wife. I want to get her some silk hose.” I told him I appreciated it but I'd better not go that day. But no, I was just treated nice everywhere I went, except when they transferred me from the 89th Headquarters over to base headquarters, and I did not like base headquarters at all.

HT:

What was the difference between the two?

DG:

Well, like you said, there they treated me like a—you might say an outsider. They resented—

HT:

At base headquarters?

DG:

Yes.

HT:

Do you think it was because of the different types of personalities working in the two different places?

DG:

Right, but just—I found out that the flying officers were just better any day than the base officers were. Now that's just my assumption.

HT:

Did anything in particular happen that made you feel like you were not being treated as well as you should have been at base headquarters?

DG:

Yes, I was supposed to get another rating, but I didn't get it.

HT:

Can you explain what a rating is? Is that a promotion?

DG:

Yes, a promotion.

HT:

And do you think you didn't get it because you were a woman perhaps, or—

DG:

No, I didn't get it, period. But I think it was because I was a woman, because I worked as hard as any of them did and I knew what I was doing. But it wasn't that way with the air force at all.

HT:

So the 89th was air force but the base was army. Is that correct?

DG:

Right.

HT:

Okay. So did you ever go back into the air force end of the army before you got out permanently?

DG:

No.

HT:

So you kind of jumped back and forth between army and air force and back to army again.

DG:

Yes.

HT:

Do you recall any embarrassing moments while you were in the military?

DG:

I had plenty, I'm sure, [chuckling] but right now—

HT:

And they can be funny or hilarious, too.

DG:

Right.

HT:

Sometimes it could be something that happened in basic training.

DG:

Oh, my goodness. This girlfriend of mine, she and I did some—I was always getting in trouble. Every time I opened my mouth I got in trouble. And she did too, but this was the funniest thing, I thought. Am I allowed to tell it?

HT:

Sure!

DG:

She was just as cute as she could be. She was pretty, she had a good personality, and she was just—Well, she was just the best friend that I ever had, and what one did the other one usually did, and they called us the “Southern twins.” And I heard some of the girls in the mess hall talking one day, and they were talking about the Southern twins, and I didn't know at that time who they were talking about. Her last name was Craven, and they called her Craven and they called me Farrington. They said, “I sure do think a lot of both of them.” She said, “Craven is really a pretty girl, but Farrington's not much to look at but she's got such a good personality.” And I thought, “Well, thanks a heap.” [chuckling]

But Kay [Craven] loved civilian clothes and she loved to wear civilian clothes. Well, you see, we weren't allowed to except on special occasions. And when we [weren't] wearing them, we couldn't have them on our clothes racks. We had to keep them someplace else, in one of the storage rooms or something over in the headquarters. But Kay kept hers in a barracks bag, and I kept telling her—At every inspection I'd say, “Craven, you'd better put those civvies away,” because we had a hard-nosed CO. And I said, “You're going to get in trouble.” She said, “No, I'm not worried about it.” So one Saturday we were really having a big inspection, so Kay got all of her civilian clothes and put them in the barracks bag. And you'll never guess where she put them. She took them and put them under the barracks. There was a door that you could put things under there, and she put them under the barracks. We stood inspection, and we had to wear black hose and this and that stuff and the other, and we couldn't dress like we wanted to.

But anyway, we passed inspection all right. And the first thing we did after inspection was over and before we went to the office to work, we took off those black hose and put on our own hose, you know, that looked nicer and went on to the office. And so she said, “Well,” she sighed real heavy like, she said, “Well, I guess she didn't find them or she would have brought them back by now.” She was talking about our CO. And we went on to work. And when we came in at lunch, there was all of her clothes that had been poured out of that barracks bag onto Kay's bed. And I said, “Sister, you're in for it now.” They called her in the office and they told her that she had to scrub the garbage cans that Tuesday, and she wanted them clean enough until you could eat out of them. Well, I can just see that little old Kay scrubbing those garbage cans, and I felt so sorry for her. And she did, she did a wonderful job cleaning them. And she got so sick that night that they had to take her on sick call, and I want you to know they operated on her the next morning and took her appendix out. And it wasn't a thing in the world but that cleaning the garbage cans and it making her sick from that. And she was in the hospital a week. And I said, “Well, do you want to get rid of your civvies now?” She said, “Not on your life.” [chuckling]

HT:

So what happened to her civilian clothes? Was she allowed to keep them?

DG:

She turned them in and let them stay turned-in until she had permission to wear them. [chuckling]

HT:

Well, speaking about clothes, what did you think of the WAC outfits? And were your clothes different, because you were in the air force, than regular WACs?

DG:

No, we just had a different patch.

HT:

A different patch. Were they khaki in color?

DG:

Well, cut this off a minute.

[Tape turned off]

HT:

We were talking about uniforms before we cut the tape off and you showed me your very nice uniform. So I think you said that you had to wear your uniforms at all times and you were not allowed to wear civilian clothes. Ever?

DG:

Oh yes, sometimes they would let you wear civilian clothes, but you had to get permission to.

HT:

So even if you went off base for a social event, you had to wear your uniform?

DG:

No, not if they would let us. We could ask permission to wear our civvies. And we'd go to town on the weekend and get a room there in Austin, a bunch of us girls. And we would take our civvies along and wear them, but we had permission to do it.

HT:

I've heard other ladies say that when they did wear their uniforms they always received special treatment. Like sometimes people would take them out to dinner or give them a free meal if they were at a restaurant, and they would get in at a reduced cost to plays and concerts and that sort of thing. Did you find that to be the case in Texas?

DG:

Sometimes, and at different places of course. It depended where you would go. But I liked Austin.

HT:

Do you recall the hardest thing you ever had to do physically while you were in the military?

DG:

No, I can't.

HT:

What about emotionally? What was the hardest thing you ever had to do emotionally?

DG:

Right now I can't think.

HT:

You mentioned earlier that you were really afraid when you were on that airplane and a piece of equipment malfunctioned and sort of caught on fire. Do you ever recall being afraid any other time while you were in the military? You were never in any danger, other than in that plane?

DG:

No.

HT:

I guess that plane could have crashed, so—

DG:

Yes, definitely. And see, it was so much bigger than the 46s and 47s were. They were a troop carrier. That's what it was, a troop carrier base, and that's where the officers learned to fly them, and they flew the troops, you see, wherever they needed to go. That's the kind I flew in the night —Well, I flew one from Bergstrom Field that night I was going home that afternoon to Shreveport, Louisiana, and then I flew a troop carrier from there to Monroe, Louisiana, and then from there to Fort Bragg. But then the coming back was from over here, on a B-24 bomber.

HT:

You had talked earlier about sometimes you and your fellow girlfriends would get a room in Austin. What did you ladies do for a social life and/or for fun on your time off?

DG:

Well, we went to movies and we went out to Barton Springs or Austin Lake on Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon and would go swimming. Of course we'd go to movies. The first date I had with my husband, we went to a movie to see Hedy Lamarr in The Heavenly Body, and the movie was so crowded that we sat on his flight jacket in the aisle.

HT:

[Chuckling] Did you enjoy that movie?

DG:

Yes I sure did.

HT:

I guess it was extra-nice to have that nice-looking man, I think you said, with you. [chuckling]

DG:

Oh, he was the best-looking man I ever seen, really and truly. But that's what we did. Well, he was to go to church with me that morning and he didn't show. So that afternoon Kay, she drove a jeep and distributed distribution and we wore our coveralls. So she wanted me to go with her that Sunday afternoon. She was working and I wasn't. So I put on my fatigues and went with her. And when we came back to the day room, there sat this good-looking man and his friend. So we talked a while and he said, “Would you like to go to a movie with me tonight?”

And I said, “Well, I'll go with you to the movie tonight just like you went to church with me this morning,” because you know he didn't show. I said, “Well, I'm going to go over to the barracks and put my uniform back on”—I had on my civvies—after that. And all that time I was hurrying to get redressed to get back over there to talk to him. And so one of the girls came over —No, he didn't ask me that when I went to change. That's the way it was. I went to change, to put on my civvies, and he hadn't asked me to go to a movie. So one of the girls came over there and said, “That good-looking sergeant wanted to know would you go with him to the movie tonight.” And I said, “You tell him I'll go to the movie with him tonight like he went to church with me this morning.” And all the time I was hurrying just as fast as I could to get dressed to go back over there before he left, to tell him I would go with him to the movies.

HT:

And you did go to the movies?

DG:

Yes, and we were together after that every night. Except on Friday nights we had to GI our barracks, and so he would go on to the NCO [noncommissioned officer] club and I would go ahead and get my GI-ing done, and then I'd go over to the NCO club and meet him and he would walk me home.

HT:

Could you tell me what GI-ing the barracks is?

DG:

Scrubbing the floors and having everything spick and span.

HT:

For inspection purposes?

DG:

Yes, Saturday morning. I know one Saturday morning after inspection was over with I got two gigs. And a gig was if anything was wrong. I had a button off of my fatigue dress and I had a bobby pin lying on the floor, and so I had to stay in. I could go to the movie on the base, but I couldn't go off the base. So that was one of the nights I got to stay there and go to the movie on the base.

HT:

Do you recall what your favorite songs and movies and dances were from those days?

DG:

No, that's been so long ago I can't remember. I liked them all.

HT:

So did you and your husband-to-be go to dances and that sort of thing?

DG:

Yes. Well, see, when they did away with the W-A-A-C and made it the W-A-C, then our commanding officer gave us a party for all of the ones that reenlisted. We could get out at that point if we wanted to, and several of them did. Now this girlfriend of mine that has the home up at High Rock Lake [North Carolina], she got out then, but she came back in on the very last day that you could get back in service. But I just reenlisted right there, and the base commander gave us a big dance that night. I had just met Bill [Gribble], but I hadn't had but one or two dates with him, and I had already promised this other guy that I worked with that I'd go with him to the dance that night. I wasn't a very good dancer because things like that wasn't allowed when I was coming up, and my dad wouldn't have let me go to a dance for anything. But anyway, that night I went and I had a wonderful time. I danced with Bill and I danced with this guy, and he got so mad because Bill wanted to sit at the table with us, that he wouldn't even take me home that night. [chuckling] He wouldn't take me back to the barracks.

I don't know, I got to travel a lot. We went down to Old Mexico one Sunday afternoon. This officer called and wanted to know if I wanted to take a friend of mine and go with them down to Old Mexico. So we went down, and then the officer stayed with us and took us out to eat and showed us around, and then flew us back that night.

HT:

When you went to Old Mexico, did you wear your civilian clothes or your military clothes?

DG:

No, we wore our military clothes.

HT:

And that was no problem going over the border or anything like that?

DG:

No. We went down to Brownsville [Texas]. That's where we went across.

HT:

And I think you told me earlier that you were in the military about two years and then decided to get married in—When was that, in 1945?

DG:

Forty-four. Forty-four is when I got married.

HT:

Did you ever consider making the military a career before you got married?

DG:

Well, I might have before I met Bill, but after Bill it was all over. [chuckling]

HT:

So that was the deciding factor.

DG:

Right.

HT:

Well, do you recall what the mood or feeling or climate of the country was during World War II? How did people feel about the war and the war effort and that sort of thing?

DG:

Well, about everybody that I knew wanted to do all they could do to help us end the war. Now I know my brother that was killed overseas, he was supposed to stay at home and help my dad—my dad was getting kind of old then—and help my dad with the farming, and he was exempted from going in. And some of the neighbors thought that he was just trying to get out of going in service, and they turned him in as not helping my dad with the farming, which he was. But on Friday nights and Saturday nights he would bag groceries at the grocery store. And so when they wrote the draft board, well, the draft board just sent him right on in. And I never did find out, and I really don't want to know who sent him in, because to me they killed him just as sure as I'm sitting right here. You can speculate, but I don't know for sure.

HT:

Do you think it might have been jealousy or that sort of thing?

DG:

Yes.

HT:

Well, do you feel you made a contribution to the war effort in the two years that you were in the—

DG:

Did I what?

HT:

Do you feel you made a contribution to the war effort?

DG:

I definitely do.

HT:

Can you tell me about some of the interesting people you met while you were in the military, other than your husband?

DG:

Did I meet anybody besides him? [chuckling] No. I met this captain, or he came to the office there when I was in the 89th, and told me he was from Raleigh, North Carolina, and he was real glad to meet somebody from North Carolina. So he and his wife—

[End Tape 1, Side A—Begin Tape 1, Side B]

HT:

You were talking before the tape ended about a captain you met who was from Raleigh and was invited out to his house.

DG:

Well, he was transferred to another base later, and then when I was transferred to base headquarters out of the 89th he came in base headquarters one day. Well, when any officer came in base headquarters, we all had to stand up from our desk, regardless of what we were doing, and salute that officer, stand at attention and salute that officer. And so this morning they were all jumping up, hopping to, and I wondered, “Well, who's coming in now?” And I looked, and there was that captain. And he came just as straight—They were all standing at attention, and when he got to me he just opened his arms for me to come into them instead of saluting. And boy, did their eyes ever pop out. [laughter] Well, they didn't know of the association he and his wife and I had had over at the other squadron. I thought that was just pretty good.

I don't know, I met a lot of interesting people, and a lot from—well, a lot of different places. And that's what I have enjoyed since I got out of service. I was working and would go on furlough, I've got an opportunity to visit a lot of states and these people, and I've done a lot of traveling. You were talking about where you came from, as close as that I ever came to, I had started to Israel with a tour group, and we landed in Amsterdam, and then coming back we landed in Vienna. But then we traveled all over Israel and went to Cairo [Egypt]. Then from Cairo we went down—One night we took a sleeper and went down on the train six hundred miles down to Luxor [Egypt] and spent the day there, and then caught the train that night and came back to Cairo. And then the next day we flew to Amman [Jordan]. That's where we flew going out there. We landed in Amman and slept that night in a motel, and it was just pouring down rain, and the next morning at five o'clock we had to get up and catch a bus and go into Israel. Well, then after we rode a bus across the desert to Cairo—Now that, I never thought that I would see the Sahara Desert. And the wind was blowing so hard that it just blew dirt all over the road, and I don't know how in the world the bus driver ever could see where to go, which way to go. You would see people just squatting down out there around maybe a little bitty tent, or maybe no tent at all, and their camels. And that was a mystery to me, where they lived and how they stayed out there and where they got their water. Of course I enjoyed all that, and then we went on into Cairo. And do you remember that leader of Cairo? Was it [Anwar] Sadat?

HT:

yes.

DG:

Saddam [Hussein]? Which was it? Sadat, I believe.

HT:

I think that's correct.

DG:

We stopped at his grave site, and it was a tourist attraction. But then when we went down to Luxor, like I said. We went on sleepers and we spent the day there, and we saw the pyramids and went up and down and all of that, which I never had any idea I would see.

HT:

When was this, Mrs. Gribble?

DG:

This was in the eighties. Then when we left there, we came on to Vienna. No, I've flown all over the United States and Canada, Mexico—

HT:

And were these trips often to visit people you had known in the military at one time or another?

DG:

Yes.

HT:

Like your good friends who live down at High Rock?

DG:

Right.

HT:

It's wonderful to be able to keep touch with people from that period of time, I guess.

DG:

I know, because I just enjoy them so much. He was a field engineer and he flew all over the world examining these military bases, their telephone situations and such as that, and he met with all of the high officials. Now just like he told us that he knew all of the vice-admirals in the United States, and he said he had met with vice-admirals—of course that wasn't what they called them—in Japan. “Many a time,” he said, “I've talked to the high brass,” and he's been all over the world. But while he was doing that, he was getting information on making a wooden clock. He has got the only, or the first, wooden clock that has ever been built in the United States in Times Square in New York. And he's got one of the most beautiful ones in his living room that he has made you've ever seen. Everything is made out of wood, the works and everything, except the pendulum and the plastic/glass over the face. And it's just really something to see. I enjoy seeing what his next inventions are to be and such as that. But my very best friend, Kay that I was telling you about, she passed away with cancer about five years ago.

HT:

So you kept in touch with her over all those years as well.

DG:

Yes.

HT:

And where did she live?

DG:

She lived in West Virginia part of the time and in Ohio part of the time, she and her husband, and then they separated. She came back to Thomasville [North Carolina], and High Point, she lived in High Point a while, and then she went to stay with her daughter in her last two years that she lived because she had cancer all over her body. And they didn't think she'd live very long, but she lived two years. And that was up in Kentucky, I believe it was. I only got to see her one time during that time because she just got so sick. She would tell me just to call her, that she just didn't want anybody to see her looking like she was looking. And I said, “Well, you know that that doesn't make me not want to see you.” But I certainly have missed her. But I would like to find out where some of the rest of them—Now, the girl that was my maid of honor at my wedding, she was from Mount Airy [North Carolina], and I don't know how in the world to look for her to see if she's still living.

HT:

Do you remember her name?

DG:

Avis, A-v-i-s, Avis Hamby.

HT:

Did she ever get married? Was that her maiden name?

DG:

I don't know. That was her maiden name. That was her name while we were in service together. And I never did hear from her after I came back.

HT:

That's interesting. That's such an unusual name, Avis, A-v-i-s.

DG:

Yes.

HT:

What did you think of Franklin D. Roosevelt?

DG:

Well, I thought he was a good president. Everybody, I'm sure, won't agree with me. [Chuckling]

HT:

And what about Mrs. Roosevelt? Did you have any feelings about her?

DG:

No. Well, I thought she was a very, very well-educated person. Well, I just hated that Roosevelt didn't live any longer than he did.

HT:

Do you recall where you were when he died?

DG:

What year did he die in? Then I can tell you more about it.

HT:

I think it was early '45. It was right before the war ended.

DG:

I was in Austin, Texas.

HT:

So you stayed in Texas after you got out of the service because your husband was still in, I guess?

DG:

Right, he was still in. He was in eight years. And we lived right across the street from the back of the governor's mansion. The church that we got married in was the First Methodist Church, and we had talked to the preacher over the telephone but we didn't know where the church was. And we had a place that we were going to live after we got married right across, like I said, from the governor's mansion. And the day that we got married, all of our friends met us there at our place. We kept trying to call a taxi, and we couldn't get a taxi to go to take us to the church. And so the lady that owned the building we were living in, her nurse came and she said, “Are you kids having trouble?” And we said, “Yes, we were trying to get a taxi to take us to the church. ”And she said, “Where are you getting married?” And we said, “The First Methodist Church.” Here she said, “Well, don't worry, I'll take you. It's a block down the street here.”

HT:

So you could have easily walked. [chuckling]

DG:

We could have walked. No, she took us though. She insisted that she take us. But we walked back. [Chuckling] And there were several from the base there, so that was all right.

HT:

You got married while you were still in the military?

DG:

In service, right.

HT:

So did you wear a uniform?

DG:

I wore my uniform, summer uniform.

HT:

Summer uniform. Can you recall any heroes or heroines you had from that period of time, someone you looked up to?

DG:

Well, you mean that I worked with, or—

HT:

Well, it could be anybody.

DG:

Anybody? Well, I thought my brother right there was one. I've got a better picture of him when he was master sergeant that I'm going to have put in that, but that's his letter of commendation when he got the cross and his medals. He was really in the thick of it. And then, of course, my younger brother. He was stationed in Paris, Texas, for a while, while I was still at Austin, and he asked me to come down one weekend. I caught the train, I got a three-day pass, and rode to Paris, and he met me at the train. He and his friends had planned a big weekend for me. And he said, “I've got a telegram for you here,” and he said—[chuckling] I won't tell you on this what he said, but he said he didn't know what it meant. It was sent to him but it was really to me, and it said, “Put on another stripe while you're gone and don't pull rank on return.” And it was from a little Jewish boy that I sat at the same desk with like this for two years. And he meant put on another stripe, I had made corporal that weekend, and he just had to be the first one to tell me. So that's what he wired and told me. And Carter, my brother, a mess officer was a good friend of Carter's, and he said, “Get what clothes she's got that she's not wearing that she's brought with her and I'll take it to the PX [post exchange] and have that stripe put on.” [chuckling] And that's what he did. He put it on my fatigue coat. Well, you wasn't supposed to put stripes on that. He put it on my shirt, extra shirt that I had, and my extra jacket that I had along. Then he brought those back and I put those on, and then he took the ones I had on and put the extra stripe on them.

Then they took me to the fair they had there, or kind of a circus. It wasn't a circus, but a fair there in Paris. And I'm chicken when it comes to riding the Ferris wheel and things like that, and the boys kept saying, “Come on, come on, you're in the service. Now how's it going to look if you get up there and start hollering and yelling to get off, and you in a uniform?” [chuckling] I said, “I don't care, I don't want to ride one of them.” But they took me on—We were three in one seat, they were going to hold me in there, and I'm telling you I—They had to stop and let me off. I don't mind telling you that. But I had such a good time with him that weekend. Of course, I only got to see him one more time before he went overseas.

HT:

You said you got out of the service in 1944 when you got married.

DG:

Yes.

HT:

Can you describe your adjustment to civilian life after you left the service? Did you miss the regiment of the—

DG:

Yes, I did. I really and truly did. We had a real nice apartment, and then this couple up here, she got out about a month after I did, and so we lived real close together and we were just good buddies then.

HT:

What type of work did you do after you got out, what type of civilian work?

DG:

I didn't go to work until after we came back here, and I think the first job I had I worked at Sears in the employees' store. And then in '63 was when my husband died. No, now let's see, I'm getting ahead of myself. In 1950 I took a cosmetology course and I opened up a beauty shop at home—that's what I did—and so I worked there.

HT:

This was still in Texas?

DG:

No, here.

HT:

Here? By this time you had come back?

DG:

Yes, down there. But they had to move our house. It was down here where the exit from [Interstate] 40 comes up onto—it's not Gallimore Dairy Road. What is that road? It used to be Sampson Road. You don't remember that, though, because you wouldn't be here. Well, they had to move our house from there when they built I-40 across the bridge down there, and they moved my shop too. And so then when we decided to move up here in—Let's see, we moved up here in '61-'60, that's when it was. We moved up here in '60 and I worked in the beauty shop here until after Bill passed away, and that's when I went to work and worked in the office at Berry Water Gardens in Kernersville for twelve years, and was working at J.C. Penney's in the sales department then. Well, then I went in the telephone sales department with J.C. Penney's.

I'll have to tell you this, I'm bragging a little bit, this other salesman and me worked one Sunday afternoon in May. We had just got in our winter coats for that fall. And this black girl, she and I sold over five thousand dollars worth of winter coats in five hours that Sunday afternoon. That's the kind of salesman I was. And when I wanted to be transferred up here to the Triad and be on the telephone in telephone sales, the manager down at J.C. Penney's in Greensboro, he said, “You can't go.”

I said, “I'm sorry, I've already told them I'd go.”

He said, “Well, you don't have my permission.”And I said, “Please give me your permission because” You know, gas was short then and I said, “I'm closer home.”

And he said, “Well, I'll let you go if you'll promise me one thing. If we ever get in a bind and can use you, will you come back down here and sell coats for us?”

And I said, “Well, if Mr. Edwards will let me.” And when I told Mr. Edwards, he said, “No way.”

I wasn't looking for a job when I took my lawn mower up there to get it fixed one day. And I'm telling you, I was the most awful-looking thing you've ever seen in your life. I won't tell you how I was dressed—more or less for a circus. The boy that came out to get my lawn mower and to check it, he said, “You wouldn't be looking for a job, would you?” And I said, “No, I've got a job at J.C. Penney's in Greensboro.”

He said, “Yes, but we need somebody here.”

I said, “What?” He said, “In telephone sales.”

I said, “Well, I used to do telephone sales for Sears.”

He said, “Were you good?”

I said, “I can sell anything.”

And he said, “Wait a minute.”

The next thing I knew, he came back and he said, “Mr. Edwards would like to see you.”

I said, “I cannot go in anywhere looking like this.” I had on red and white plaid slacks. I had on a shirt—Now I'd been working in the yard, and I didn't change clothes to go up there because I wasn't going to see anybody but the one in the repair shop. I had on a blouse that had flowers that big around, and they were black and they were red and they were yellow, and I was a disgrace. And he said, “That doesn't make a bit of difference. You come on in here and see Mr. Edwards.” I went in there, and I was so embarrassed. I've never been so embarrassed in my life. He said, “How soon do you want to come to work for us, Dottie?” He said, “I've already got my report on your sales. We'd like to have you up here on nighttime.” So I just transferred up there and sold contracts.

HT:

And this was at Berry Water Gardens?

DG:

No, this was at Sears, for Sears.

HT:

Oh, Sears.

DG:

No, I was on the switchboard most of the time, besides the big billing machine, you know, before computers came in.

HT:

What impact do you think the military had on your life immediately after you got out and in the long term?

DG:

Well, I had more or less been on my own ever since I finished high school, and it helped me to be on my own more and to know what was best in taking care of myself, if you know what I'm trying to say, and to support myself. I think it helped me a lot, because I don't think I would have ever got that here at home. I'd have kept working down there where I was working, and probably not got any more schooling. Because, you see, when we were in Russellville, Arkansas, I had seven weeks of schooling there, nothing but schooling. And then after—Let's see, it was the last year I was in Bergstrom Field, I went to the university there in Austin and took army administration and everything that you could take with it, typing and all kinds of office work. So I think, with all that that I had, it taught me a lot.

HT:

So it sounds like your life has been different because of the military.

DG:

Definitely. Because, you see, my mother died when I was fourteen, and that made a whole lot of difference.

HT:

Would you do it again, that is, join the military?

DG:

Yes, I would. I would right now if they would take old women. [Laughter]

HT:

Well, do you consider yourself to be an independent person?

DG:

What?

HT:

Do you consider yourself to be independent?

DG:

I have to be, let's put it like that.

HT:

Well, do you think the military made you that way, or were you independent before you joined the military?

DG:

Well, I had to be independent some before I joined, but joining, and then—You see, my husband's been gone for thirty-five years, and I've had to be independent. I haven't had anybody to depend on. Now that's why this place looks as shabby as it does right now. This is the first year in thirty-seven years that this place has ever looked this bad, the yard especially, because I've always been able to do it regardless of what kind of work I did. But I haven't had the best of health and I just couldn't do it.

No, I took care of a man in High Point for five years, day and night for five years, and he was one of the finest men I've ever seen in my life. He was eighty-nine, he had just retired, and his wife had just died. He retired at eighty-nine and he was a millionaire. He was vice president of High Point Bank and Trust Company, and he had a slight stroke and they had to get somebody to take care of him. So this friend of mine called him, she was a good friend of his wife's, and she recommended me. So I went over there and I stayed with him five years. And he was a gentleman from the word go, and he was so good to me. He taught me a whole lot about having to live alone and take care of myself, financially and in every way. But I didn't get to stay with him as long as he lived. I hated that. But I won't tell you about that on tape.

HT:

Do you consider yourself to be a pioneer or a trailblazer or a trendsetter when you entered the service?

DG:

I think so. There are several people who went in because of my recommendation. Now, they didn't everybody like it as well as I did, but—

HT:

Would you consider yourself and other women who joined the military during World War II to be forerunners of today's women's movement?

DG:

Well, I think so because they know more about it now by us having been in. And I would recommend it. Of course now I don't know how it is today. I'm sure it's a lot of difference now than what it was when we went in, but I would recommend it to a granddaughter of mine if they wanted to go in.

HT:

Do you recall how women who joined the military during World War II were perceived by the public? The reason I was asking is I read about a scandal campaign against the WACs in the spring of 1943, I think it was. Do you have any feelings about what caused this to happen and why?

DG:

They just didn't think that we ought to be there, that we were taking the men's jobs away from them instead of helping them. Oh, Kay and I, this good friend of mine that I told you about, we were walking down the street in Austin one Sunday afternoon toward the bus station. And like I told you, she was a real cute person—or I thought she was cute—and she had dark curly hair. And this man walked up beside of us, he walked up beside of her, and he called her all sorts of names, and put a Jew to the end of it. I said, “Come on, Kay, don't say anything. Just keep quiet.” Because she was like me, she wanted to say something back to him, but I knew not to. She started to and I said, “Forget it. Don't say another word to him.” And he just walked beside of us for a long time, and people were just standing and watching, and he was just calling her some of the ugliest names. [chuckling] And I'm surprised that she didn't pop him one, because she was—You know, you can just stand so much. And he was very rude. Oh, we've been called names and everything like that.

HT:

This was a civilian?

DG:

Yes.

HT:

And you never found out why he did this?

DG:

No, just that he didn't like the WACs. He didn't think it was right for the women to go in service. That's all I can figure out. And like I say, he wasn't the only one. We had that happen a lot.

HT:

And how did you handle it, just ignore it?

DG:

Just ignore it. That's the best thing you could do.

HT:

Well, I've read that women in the British Army and the Canadian Army had the same sort of problems, and it seemed to be worse for women who were in the [U.S.] Army. The women in the [U.S.] Navy didn't seem to have it as rough. They weren't picked upon, it seemed like, as often.

DG:

Well, now I didn't know of any—Well, yes, I did too. This man that lived over here on Guilford Jamestown Road, I used to date his brother, and he married a WAVE [Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service—Navy] and I got to know her. She was from Wisconsin and she was just one of the nicest persons I've ever seen, and I thought a lot of her. She just passed away this last year. I would go see her and we'd talk about it. She said the WAVES, she knew, didn't have it as bad as we did, but she said they had it bad.

HT:

How did that make you feel when you saw something like that happen to your friend?

DG:

Well, this just broke my heart because she had cancer for about three years. She was in the bed, I know, for two years, and I would go to see her as often as I could, every week at least, and I'd take her flowers and things like that. Then about five weeks before she died, she told me, “Dottie, I feel like talking to you now and I want to see you every time you come, but I'm afraid there's going to be times pretty soon that you won't be able to talk to me or I won't be able to talk to you.” And it wasn't very long until—I would call over there first and ask if I could see her before I would go, and they'd say, “Well, no, she's sleeping now,” and “Dottie, she's beginning to go pretty fast.” And I'd say, “Well, can I bring her some flowers?” And they said yes. They said, “Now she wakes up sometimes and can talk all right, but then it isn't very long until she's out of it again.” And so about three or four weeks I went over there like that and I never did go in to see her. I have migraines awfully bad, and the night that she was at the funeral home I got dressed to go see her and go to the funeral home, and I started having a migraine. Of course, I get blind and I get, well, just a terrible, terrible headache—for days—and so I couldn't go. And I thought, well, I'll go to the funeral in the morning, and I got up and I couldn't go to the funeral.

But she was telling me about the kind of funeral she wanted, like her husband had. He was in service and he lost a leg in service. But anyway she said, “I want a funeral with—Take me to the funeral home and have the funeral there,” over here on High Point Road, you know where that cemetery is and Hanes-Lineberry [Funeral Home]. So they had her over there and they took her to her grave on a caisson. Well, I didn't know that they did that anymore except anybody that was high-ranking military. But they did her husband's like that, and that's what she wanted. And her son-in-law built the caisson that they used, and her son is in the reserve and the pallbearers were all from his unit. The daughter took pictures of it especially for me to see, since her husband was the one that built the caisson and he's got the horses and everything. And she said, “I want you to see these pictures,” and I haven't got to see them yet. “Because,” she said, “I want you to do the same thing.” Well, I haven't seen that done, like I say, for anybody in the lower ranks. Everything I've ever seen done was in Washington or someplace like that.

HT:

So she was very proud of having been in the military.

DG:

She was. About four weeks before she died, she asked the doctor could she fly to Wisconsin and see her sisters one more time, because they couldn't come in here at that time before she died. And he told her yes. Well, she'd been taking chemo[therapy]. Well, every time she started taking chemo, of course her hair would come out again. But this time it had grown out about a fourth of an inch or a little longer, and she went to this hairdresser that did her hair, cut it all the time, and she gave her a perm. And she said that was the cutest head of hair she'd ever seen in her life. And Marie got on a plane with her daughter and flew to Wisconsin on Friday, and had to come back Sunday because she couldn't stay up any longer. Monday she went and had another chemo, and all of her hair came out again. And she didn't live very long after that. But she wanted to go tell them all goodbye. Her older sister has heart trouble and she said, “When Sis told me goodbye she said, 'Well, don't worry, hon, I'll meet you at the pearly gates. I'll be the first one there to meet you.'” And do you know her sister is still living, and Marie is gone. She's been gone now about two years. So we don't know, do we?

HT:

No, we certainly don't. I know your son was in the military. Do you have any daughters?

DG:

No, he's the only child I have.

HT:

Just the one son, right. And he joined, I guess?

DG:

Yes.

HT:

And I think you said he was a paratrooper?

DG:

A paratrooper. And boy, now you're talking about somebody dedicated. He was.

HT:

He did not make a career of it, though?

DG:

No. I wish he had, but he got out after my husband died because he thought that he ought to get out and take care of me. Well, I could take care of myself a whole lot better then than I can now, and he's in San Antonio. [chuckling]

HT:

Well, how do you feel about women in combat positions? Like this past December women flew combat missions over Iraq. Do you approve of this sort of thing?

DG:

I don't know, I've tried to analyze that and see how I felt about it. I think they're capable. But now if they want to I think it's all right, but if they don't want to—

HT:

They should have the option to do that on their own if they want?

DG:

Well, whatever, but that would be hard to just say right offhand. But I don't believe in them being in the tanks and in foxholes. Now somehow I draw the line there. Maybe that doesn't sound sensible to you, but that's kind of the way I think about it.

HT:

Well, is there anything else that you'd like to add about your military service that we haven't covered? Any stories?

DG:

Well, I could tell you a lot but—I don't think so. I think I've told you enough. [chuckling]

HT:

All right. Well, I do appreciate you talking with me today. And if you can think of something in the future, just give me a call and we'll tape it.

DG:

Oh me, you wouldn't want me to get started again. [chuckling]

HT:

So there's nothing real interesting that you left out?

DG:

No.

HT:

Okay. Well, thanks again. I appreciate it so much.

DG:

Well, thank you.

[End of the Interview]